tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post6489581330086827204..comments2024-03-17T11:33:23.580+04:00Comments on From There to Here: Thoughts on Ethical TravelJayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-1278637291112636762013-08-05T22:56:34.058+04:002013-08-05T22:56:34.058+04:00Great post and really needed! I always consider th...Great post and really needed! I always consider the ethics of each country before I make decisions to travel but at the same time, I'm aware of the positives as well and always try to keep them in mind. Safety is #1 to me since I'm a solo female traveler so I try to always make the best decisions in any country I am in. I won't judge a country based on what is happening but it does make me more aware of my surroundings when I do step out of the airport. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08997675090957349035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-49606482668690956122013-08-03T16:58:20.134+04:002013-08-03T16:58:20.134+04:00It's something I consider when deciding on tri...It's something I consider when deciding on trips but so far, I've not not gone anywhere for ethical reasons. I remember an acquaintance being distraught and not talking to me the rest of my time in London after hearing I was going to Uganda because of how they treat gay men there (him being a gay man). I'm naive at times, maybe even selfish because whilst I didn't think I condoned it, he does. I still went to Uganda and don't regret it.<br /><br />Equally, in the UAE (great at the end of a couple of months roughing it in Africa but for sure surreal) I had the ability to meet up with a male mate (and ex lover) but didn't. It just didn't seem worth it to me (even though nothing physical would have eventuated at that point in our lives. <br /><br />So, I think about things, but thus far, have been comfortable travelling where I like.Sue @ SimonsSistaSawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07709354348647064643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-84678599705900870172013-08-02T17:13:14.168+04:002013-08-02T17:13:14.168+04:00You're right Naomi - it's quite a hard dec...You're right Naomi - it's quite a hard decision to make and making the ethical choice requires a lot of work and research. It's certainly not impossible but it requires one to be organized and aware and I can understand why many just avoid it altogether.<br /><br />Thanks for contributing to the discussion!Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-22948438267513074242013-08-02T17:11:15.657+04:002013-08-02T17:11:15.657+04:00I loved this comment and stance, JoAnna and I coul...I loved this comment and stance, JoAnna and I couldn't have said it better myself.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-81487972368163675852013-08-02T17:10:42.106+04:002013-08-02T17:10:42.106+04:00I imagine that to be a very difficult and frustrat...I imagine that to be a very difficult and frustrating situation for your friend and certainly hard for me to grapple as well.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-8309088917626496442013-07-31T20:55:46.382+04:002013-07-31T20:55:46.382+04:00A great post Jay about a topic that people either ...A great post Jay about a topic that people either shy away from or don't take the time to consider before travelling to some places. Thought I wouldn't choose some places as a primary destination (due to their safety or human rights record, treatment of women/children/marginalized groups, overt corrupt and injust practices, etc.) i think it's such a shame to have to limit travel because of incidences that 'don't always' (and those are the key words: don't always) define a nation. That said, I'll admit that I have 3 or 4 countries on my "no-fly" list that I'm avoiding (at the moment at least) as I feel my tourist dollars will only support the structures/rhetoric that keeps outdated ideals/mindsets and values in place. It's may be an infinitesimal drop in the ocean, I know, but it's my drop so I get to choose where it goes. <br /><br />And that's where the whole notion of "choosing your battles" comes in, because at the end of the day the personal and the political are so intertwined that rudimentary purchases (e.g. tickets with a certain airline, bookings with a certain hotel, buying any kind of cell phone or computer) are doing harm to someone. Somewhere. I do think though (as Jess and Naomi have alluded above) that if I have an opportunity to travel to a certain country, it would be a crying shame to NOT take advantage of it regardless of the issues at stake. In such situations I'll try to get the best out of the experience by doing research beforehand and finding networks, organizations or groups I can contact and meet with on the ground and *hopefully* channel my money with more awareness. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10126138735761537870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-34415083960004707002013-07-31T19:55:32.085+04:002013-07-31T19:55:32.085+04:00Such a tough subject Jay and very eloquently tackl...Such a tough subject Jay and very eloquently tackled. I don't know how to tackle it myself and have more or less resigned myself to going if I'm given the opportunity, but pretty sure I wouldn't choose it as a first destination... I have a friend from Chicago who regularly has to travel to Saudi Arabia for conferences she organises. She is the Director of her office in Brussels, responsible overall for the success of massive events all over the world and, as it happens, generally amazing at her job. But once she arrives in Saudi, she couldn't sit with her male colleagues and counterparts in the hotel restaurant to plan the next day's activities without one of the locals "claiming" that she was family. I'd imagine it is hard to "direct" when you feel like you have little authority or freedom to do actually so...based only on your gender. Hard for me to grapple with in any kind of rational way - especially having gone to an all-girls school and being taught I could do whatever I set my mind to. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00569048833434141152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-72057470768329262522013-07-31T16:22:51.237+04:002013-07-31T16:22:51.237+04:00Good point! I find that most cultural differences ...Good point! I find that most cultural differences do not threaten my morals so thankfully it hasn't kept my travels too contained :)danielle abroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852597933426408787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-47163665829396271092013-07-31T06:52:08.153+04:002013-07-31T06:52:08.153+04:00Very thought provoking post. I've actually bee...Very thought provoking post. I've actually been thinking about this issue a lot lately, as I'll be travelling through Abu Dhabi on a long layover and am debating on how to spend my time. Yes, you can find the horrific in every culture - but when does that weigh more heavily on our travel choices than witnessing the good? On the one hand, during my layover I want to get out and see the culture of Abu Dhabi (even if that means a bunch of soulless strip malls and chain restaurants) and I would like to get out to Al-Ain to try and see more of Emirati culture - particularly the elements that aren't just related to (offensive, archaic) gender roles. On the other hand, the UAE does have these riotously medieval laws concerning women - and I have to consider how a visit would support, even if indirectly, this system. For a question like this, it comes down mostly to tourism dollars. If I shut myself away in the airport all day and refuse to visit the city outside in protest, then isn't the money I spend there (because I will need to eat) just going to the government who both enforces these laws and owns the airport? Is it then better to get outside, and be conscious of where the money I spend will go? And isn't it better to get outside, if I have to be there anyways, and try and speak to people directly, maybe get in contact with women in whatever way possible? I've been looking into women's centres or community projects to visit in just a day in Abu Dhabi, instead of going to government run attractions or sites (ug), but I really don't know what I'll find. If I have to be there, it's better those projects than going to a mall, at least. Naomihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03411850191801200772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-19943055108860147392013-07-31T01:42:34.231+04:002013-07-31T01:42:34.231+04:00Thank you Megan - that means a lot coming from you...Thank you Megan - that means a lot coming from you!<br /><br />There certainly is value in seeing and experiencing things outside of our comfort zone but I have to agree - there's only so much risk I'm willing to take to see a country. But, I say that yet I stayed in Gabon through some scary times and when I really didn't agree or feel comfortable with a lot of things there. I certainly did learn a lot from that experience though and I won't discredit it!Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-48449284948832987242013-07-31T01:36:12.101+04:002013-07-31T01:36:12.101+04:00There's a strong possibility that the Middle E...There's a strong possibility that the Middle East will come up in our career as expats and I'm pretty undecided as to if I'd be willing to go knowing my rights as a woman are so limited. Obviously, there are some really great things to experience there yet it's hard to support countries that are not supportive of our rights.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-71859357196626034762013-07-31T01:17:30.748+04:002013-07-31T01:17:30.748+04:00My husband sent this article to me moments after w...My husband sent this article to me moments after we discussed a possible move to Dubai in the next couple of years - if his job requires it. Brandon is no longer interested in traveling there and now I'm unsure. I always think about safety before booking a trip but bad things could happen anywhere; it's just disgusting that they're treating this woman so poorly. Postcards from Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12050447967374041694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-51609916237793887242013-07-31T01:16:47.030+04:002013-07-31T01:16:47.030+04:00This is such an amazing post Jay! Clearly very tho...This is such an amazing post Jay! Clearly very though provoking for a lot us, especially those of us who have spent time traveling or living in countries foreign to our own. For me it came down to desire; did I have a desire to see certain places or not. I had a desire to go to the red light district in amsterdam, at night. So i went. But i have never had a desire to go to the UAE. Now i guess the bigger question is what fuels my desire? Have i never wanted to go to the UAE because of their culture and belief systems? I'm not sure. I don't think a difference in beliefs would sway me, but more how those beliefs end up affecting me personally if I chose to put myself in the center of it. I agree with Nicole ^ in that the only reason i have never visited a certain country was not because it conflicted with my moral or political beliefs, but because it put myself or someone else at risk. I just don't think it is worth putting yourself in harms way because you want to see a country. Meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08097276833418384483noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-91527466145335068902013-07-31T01:07:36.554+04:002013-07-31T01:07:36.554+04:00It is sickening and eye opening. I suppose being ...It is sickening and eye opening. I suppose being aware of who and what we are supporting is the first step to take.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-27148649312538641312013-07-31T00:59:36.773+04:002013-07-31T00:59:36.773+04:00You're right - it's unfortunate that women...You're right - it's unfortunate that women continue to be treated differently and without many freedoms all over the world and it's sad that we need to remind ourselves to be careful. I still sit on the fence in regards to moving to a country where my rights would be minimized. While I know many do and enjoy their time, I'm not sure I'd be ok being treated at a lower standard than I (we) deserve.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-33148609282239007462013-07-31T00:54:52.298+04:002013-07-31T00:54:52.298+04:00Thank you for those kind words Nicole!
Concern ...Thank you for those kind words Nicole! <br /><br />Concern for personal safety isn't selfish at all and often times, places that have a record of unsafe conditions also have a lot of underlying issues. But, making informed and educated decisions about where we support is also important!Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-47899784548909669642013-07-31T00:51:43.068+04:002013-07-31T00:51:43.068+04:00My list of places I have no desire to visit is qui...My list of places I have no desire to visit is quite short as well and often those places relate to safety and their current instability. Keeping an eye on what (and whom) we choose to support when travelling is really important but often difficult to gage.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-62075471716969090662013-07-31T00:29:20.206+04:002013-07-31T00:29:20.206+04:00jay this is so amazingly well written. for starter...jay this is so amazingly well written. for starters i had no idea about that situation going on. but you bring up such a good point about not traveling somewhere because it conflicts with you moral. honestly the only reason i have ever thought of not traveling somewhere is because of my own personal safety (selfish). But its such an important topic and point to bring up because tourism is a huge income for countries and just like the other small things we do to try to help our environment, country and world, boycotting a country as a tourist is definitely something we can do to help or at least make a small impact. Nicole Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18444025045886559396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-73702314715625306782013-07-30T23:25:17.026+04:002013-07-30T23:25:17.026+04:00Very thought provoking post. Personally there is ...Very thought provoking post. Personally there is a very short list of countries that I have no desire to ever see due to various reasons. UAE is not on that list but it has never been on my list of places to see. <br /><br />I do try to think ethically when I travel but that has more to do with ensuring my money goes to local business when I am in country. Not sure I would completely boycott a country though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-68050360751316764592013-07-30T22:51:26.116+04:002013-07-30T22:51:26.116+04:00That makes sense Michelle and I'm often wonder...That makes sense Michelle and I'm often wondering who we're punishing when we choose such actions. This is such a complicated issue with so many different facets and a lot of grey area.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-16935637122909035132013-07-30T21:33:51.723+04:002013-07-30T21:33:51.723+04:00A great post; as a fan of modern architecture, I w...A great post; as a fan of modern architecture, I was hoping to explore Dubai next year, but the disgusting treatment of Marte Deborah Dalelv makes me very nervous. I don't want to be in a situation in any country where I am more scared of the authorities than the criminals. <br /><br />I do a lot of work with Amnesty International and for many years I refused to visit Egypt because of the human rights violations there, but I then listened to a really interesting interview with Egyptians that said by NOT visiting, we are hurting the local people more, as many people rely on the income that they receive from tourists. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-4429765754007947492013-07-29T22:08:31.391+04:002013-07-29T22:08:31.391+04:00i would agree almost verbatim with jenna above. ju...i would agree almost verbatim with jenna above. just like i choose to support certain companies or producers by spending my money with them instead of competitors, even if i had a prior interest in visiting a country, i couldn't even think about it after hearing about things like this. it's sickening. i guess i'm one of those who thinks it really does matter where we go with our tourism dollars, even if it's just one person. as you said, it might be a drop in the ocean but it's gotta count for something, somehow.Cynthiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11446312405129969191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-37392689769262486322013-07-29T18:46:31.487+04:002013-07-29T18:46:31.487+04:00It is a fine line, but I also think that we must a...It is a fine line, but I also think that we must always remember where we are when traveling to some of those places. I grew up in the Middle East, so I know that there are very strict laws against women there and it's very important to be aware and ready for those should anything happen. It's also very important I think as women traveling to be cautious and aware of surroundings when we travel to places, actually everywhere because truthfully, anything can happen anywhere. As for the charges and such, I think that's a travesty and while we are still ages further in the Middle East than we used to be in terms of changing those laws, unfortunately, women still don't have the freedoms there like we do and the laws that protect them. Which is even more for us to remain vigilant and be prepared for anything when traveling there.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03481775343584575260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-85157100558186710372013-07-29T16:19:32.250+04:002013-07-29T16:19:32.250+04:00Love this, Jenna! It takes a bit of work, doesn&#...Love this, Jenna! It takes a bit of work, doesn't it, but it certainly feels much better when we're comfortable supporting those who have earned it.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04585816729964741872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3989837755018110330.post-3991313096841507552013-07-29T16:09:34.063+04:002013-07-29T16:09:34.063+04:00This is such a great post Jay, and something that ...This is such a great post Jay, and something that I've thought about frequently. From a personal standpoint, it is less about safety (I tend to enjoy less stable destinations, as you may have noticed ;) and more about whether I'm willing to support a government that commits human rights atrocities. When I was in Burma, this was a huge thing for me. On the one hand, it was a wonderful trip and an incredible learning experience, but without a doubt some of my money went into the hands of the military dictatorship. As you said, everyone has an ethical hierarchy and I think for me, when I do visit places like the UAE, I try to spend money in locally owned restaurants, etc, rather than places that are tied to big business and the government. But, for sure, there is no clear cut answer. It's an intriguing debate :)<br /><br />xxx<br />JennaJennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238434752028472905noreply@blogger.com